...Great idea, Gary. The nice thing about the convention center is that out-of-towners can ask for the Watchtower discount.
Mary - another great idea. I'll have to flip through my address book & see who's in there.
Shepherd Book
JoinedPosts by Shepherd Book
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50
Elders created new form of Expulsion - Looking for Suggestions
by Shepherd Book inas many of you already know, my wife and i left the jws simply because we discovered it was not true.
we did not commit any sins, and we did not sow seeds of doubt in the congregation.
in fact, at the last meeting my wife attended, she still fully believed it was the truth.. .
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50
Elders created new form of Expulsion - Looking for Suggestions
by Shepherd Book inas many of you already know, my wife and i left the jws simply because we discovered it was not true.
we did not commit any sins, and we did not sow seeds of doubt in the congregation.
in fact, at the last meeting my wife attended, she still fully believed it was the truth.. .
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Shepherd Book
Okay, you all have me convinced to contact the local papers. I'll do that as soon as I have time.
StAnn- That's another good idea. I'll get in touch w/ Silent Lambs. First I need to import the phone conversation into my computer & delete my friend's name. Then I'll contact them and see if they want to use it.
Nathan- You may be right, the lawyer was just looking for $$$. She indicated that, since the elders appeared to have gone against their own rules, and divulged private information to a random guy who called, that my case would be stronger than most. But, don't worry, at that price, I didn't take the bait.
And just for the record, I have moved on with life, and I have a good circle of non-JW friends, including my own sister (my only other family member who's not a JW) and a couple of guys who left years earlier that I reconnected with. My point in posting here was not to try to hang onto friendships with JWs, but to do my part to expose the organization. Actually, if I thought there was a chance in preserving any relationship, I wouldn't be so vocal, because I'd want to maintain that relationship. As I wrote above, my sister-in-law (one of the few JWs who still said hi to us), has recently ceased all association with us. So, apart from very awkward phone calls I get from my dad (about once a month), I pretty much have no contact with any JWs anymore.
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50
Elders created new form of Expulsion - Looking for Suggestions
by Shepherd Book inas many of you already know, my wife and i left the jws simply because we discovered it was not true.
we did not commit any sins, and we did not sow seeds of doubt in the congregation.
in fact, at the last meeting my wife attended, she still fully believed it was the truth.. .
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Shepherd Book
Mary & Rebel-
That's a great idea. I hadn't considered that. Maybe I'll write something up during my lunch break (it's either that or go have lunch with my worldly co-workers!).
Calling the elder is a good idea, too, but I fear I'd be way too nervous to do that. As you can tell from my phone conversations (see links above), I am a nervous wreck when dealing with confronations.
AAG-
Wow, the same thing happened to you, too? I guess I'm not unique. As I said above, they seem to really feel like they need to silence those who formerly had 'privileges'.
Yeah, I'm happy with the freedom, too. For a long time, I curttailed how vocal I was about the WT's hypocrisy. But, now, since everyone shuns me anyways, I've decided to become a first-class apostate.
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50
Elders created new form of Expulsion - Looking for Suggestions
by Shepherd Book inas many of you already know, my wife and i left the jws simply because we discovered it was not true.
we did not commit any sins, and we did not sow seeds of doubt in the congregation.
in fact, at the last meeting my wife attended, she still fully believed it was the truth.. .
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Shepherd Book
Jeff-
Yeah, I vaguely recall reading that back when I was a JW. It's a good point, though.
It seems, then, that if you want to "successfully" fade, you must:
1) Be very quiet about what you've discovered.
and
2) Not have any superfine relatives that feel it's their mission from Jehovah to punish you.
I suppose it also helps if you weren't that popular of a JW in the first place. In my case, everyone noticed as soon as I was gone.
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50
Elders created new form of Expulsion - Looking for Suggestions
by Shepherd Book inas many of you already know, my wife and i left the jws simply because we discovered it was not true.
we did not commit any sins, and we did not sow seeds of doubt in the congregation.
in fact, at the last meeting my wife attended, she still fully believed it was the truth.. .
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Shepherd Book
Drwtsn32-
Maybe I didn't make it clear in the letter, but I was NOT disfellowshipped. The elder even admitted this to my friend. I was "removed" - whatever that means...?
Shamus & Jeff-
Yeah, I think pursuing a court case isa waste of time & money & ulitmately (probably) futile. I was looking for any OTHER suggestions. Of course, if someone on here is a lawyer & can discuss the matter without outrageous fees, that'd be cool; but I was wondering if anyone had any ideas on how to get the word out; how to make JWs aware of the bizarre lengths the Watchtower will go to in an effort to silence dissenting opions.
Jeff-
Yeah, the elder was shook up. He even called my friend back and tried to fumble over his words a second time.
The phone call was very telling: Why not tell me I was "removed"? Why was the elder so nervous? Why was he suprised a JW from another hall knew about me? His dialogue led me to believe he had been warned that a lawsuit may transpire if he wasn't careful.
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Elders created new form of Expulsion - Looking for Suggestions
by Shepherd Book inas many of you already know, my wife and i left the jws simply because we discovered it was not true.
we did not commit any sins, and we did not sow seeds of doubt in the congregation.
in fact, at the last meeting my wife attended, she still fully believed it was the truth.. .
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Shepherd Book
As many of you already know, my wife and I left the JWs simply because we discovered it was not true. We did not commit any ‘sins’, and we did not ‘sow seeds of doubt’ in the congregation. In fact, at the last meeting my wife attended, she still fully believed it was the truth.
We tried fading, but the elders eventually came looking for us. When they stopped by just to check up on us, we were kind to them. Finally, though, one of the elders called us to set up a meeting. Those two phone conversations (which can be found here: http://www.watchtowerletters.com/Our_convo_elders_vids.html) occurred over a year after our last meeting, and nearly two years since we had last gone out in service.
We wrote the elders a letter (http://www.watchtowerletters.com/our_letter_elders.html), stipulating that we were willing to meet with them as long as certain basic rights were secured, such as our ability to bring counsel and to record the meetings. We also asked that they inform us about the meetings in written advance.
We never heard back from the elders. That was August of 2006. As I mentioned here before, in November and December of 2008 (over two years later!) I began receiving phone calls and emails from family members wondering if we had been disfellowshipped or disassociated. I told them that we were not, but that if they didn’t believe me, they could call the elders from my former congregation and check for themselves. My sister-in-law called the elders and then emailed us to tell us we were disfellowshipped.
This surprised me, as we had never had a judicial meeting with the elders, nor had we ever been informed of being DF’d in abstentia. So I had a friend call one of those elders. That elder, after much hesitating, explained that we “really weren’t disfellowshipped” but that we were “removed from being Witnesses” and that that’s “pretty much the same thing” as being DF’d. When my friend (pretending to be a JW from another hall) expressed surprise at this, the elder said that’s understandable since no one outside the local congregation was informed about the ‘removal’. The elder said “Yeah, Shepherd Book wouldn’t know about it, because we never told him”. The elder also went on to disclose some of the contents of my letter. I recorded that conversation but, as of yet, have not put it on the internet.
So…
I’m wondering if anyone has any suggestions on how to proceed. The elders (evidently at the behest of the Society) have gone against the letter I sent them in multiple ways, and have evidently created a whole new category of expelling members just to as to find a loophole. I spoke with a lawyer, and she said I may have a legal case, as they broke their own rules (i.e., not informing me, creating a new kind of label, slandering me to others, divulging ecclesiastically privileged information), but the initial consultation with this lawyer would have cost $380 for the first hour. (Now that’s a crime – how many of us even make a tenth of that in an hour?) I also consulted with Michael Newdow and the FFRF, and though they were sympathetic, they pointed out their area of expertise concerns separation of church and state.
If anyone has any connections/suggestions in the legal world, I’m listening. Or, if anyone has any ideas for getting this out to the public and/or other JWs, I’m all for it.
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Was there any particular song or music u were not allowed to listen to because it was inappropriate or it was deemed demonized?
by jetery ini remember there was this heavy metal group called wasp.
some of the witnesses said it stood for we are satans people and that wasnt even true.
stairway to heaven by led zeppelin was a no-no because they said if u played it backwards it talked about worshipping the devil.
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Shepherd Book
LeavingWT--
I was there in 1994 as a temp through Oct and November. So, you were probably there. Do you remember which member of the Gov Body that was?
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Was there any particular song or music u were not allowed to listen to because it was inappropriate or it was deemed demonized?
by jetery ini remember there was this heavy metal group called wasp.
some of the witnesses said it stood for we are satans people and that wasnt even true.
stairway to heaven by led zeppelin was a no-no because they said if u played it backwards it talked about worshipping the devil.
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Shepherd Book
My Dad expressly forbid "Come Together" (the Beatles), even though he owned the record. He said that song was specifically mentioned in the Watchtower as being inappropriate. His rationale fo rkeeping the record was that the 'B' side contained the song "Something", and that was acceptable, I guess.
When I was at Bethel, a young guy was kicked out when his roommate ratted him out for having 'inappropriate' music. The next day, one of the Governing Body (can't recall who) listed off certain songs/albums/titles in the young man's collection, indicating that all of these would be inappropriate. All that day, I tried to remember the songs/albums/titles he said so I could write them down when I got back to my room. Here's what I wrote:
Stone Temple Pilots, Soul Asylum, Dead and Bloated, Sexy Type Thing, Nirvana, Alice in Chains, Blood Sugar Sex and Magic, Blind Leading the Naked, Bang and Blame, Good Friends and a Bottle of Pills, Slaughtered, Wet My Bed, Jar of Flies, Like Suicide
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Recent article on shunning?
by Shepherd Book inin the past two months:.
-my father (a ministerial servant who continued to associate with me) called to see if i was df'd or da'd.
i told him i didn't "want to do the religion" two years ago, but suddenly he was concerned about my exact standing.
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Shepherd Book
Blondie, you're right - I didn't say if I was DA or DF. And, for the record, I am neither. But that could be why my dad called - he needed to verify. Same thing with my in-laws, maybe they assumed I was DF'd and thus figured they'd get in trouble if they were in my company for the day. Either way, I wish I knew why the sudden surge in interest in my current standing.
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Recent article on shunning?
by Shepherd Book inin the past two months:.
-my father (a ministerial servant who continued to associate with me) called to see if i was df'd or da'd.
i told him i didn't "want to do the religion" two years ago, but suddenly he was concerned about my exact standing.
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Shepherd Book
Yeah, it might not be new info, but you know how they get all excited when they're reminded of something. I recall a few years ago, there was an article in the Kingdom Ministry about the 'benefits' of living in the territory of the congregation you go to. It wasn't new info, but a lot of JWs in my area switched halls so as to be attending the 'correct' one. But now that's died down and no one cares again.